GardenStateBaller Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 19 minutes ago, Softballguy said: Chaminade and TCA have been state title contenders for years even before either were nationally relevant TCA will be nationally relevant again because they have little to no real competition for talent in Duval County because none of the publics have any real stability and usually even when the teams get good they have coaching changes The lowest classes of FL HSFB mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. C-M has made a name for themselves by beating the likes of Buford, SFA and BC. TCA plays nobodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softballguy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, GardenStateBaller said: The lowest classes of FL HSFB mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. C-M has made a name for themselves by beating the likes of Buford, SFA and BC. TCA plays nobodies. I can name several nationally ranked teams who play weaker competition that TCA has in the last decade and wouldn't have to dig all that far into the rankings When you play in Florida you don't have to go fly across the country to face good teams This ain't Colorado or Oklahoma where you have to leave the state to face a team ranked in the top 1000 in the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenStateBaller Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 5 minutes ago, Softballguy said: I can name several nationally ranked teams who play weaker competition that TCA has in the last decade and wouldn't have to dig all that far into the rankings When you play in Florida you don't have to go fly across the country to face good teams This ain't Colorado or Oklahoma where you have to leave the state to face a team ranked in the top 1000 in the country Nobody cares about the last decade. We're talking the awesome, modern era of HSFB. Now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softballguy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, GardenStateBaller said: Nobody cares about the last decade. We're talking the awesome, modern era of HSFB. Now! Ever heard the saying the past is a window into the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenStateBaller Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 8 minutes ago, Softballguy said: Ever heard the saying the past is a window into the future? If that were the case teams like Massillon, Valdosta, Moeller and St Ignatius would still be winning Nattys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softballguy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 2 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said: If that were the case teams like Massillon, Valdosta, Moeller and St Ignatius would still be winning Nattys. Those teams realistically could get back to that level with the right coach and structure Let's not forget that most current powerhouses weren't that good 10-15 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenStateBaller Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 5 minutes ago, Softballguy said: Those teams realistically could get back to that level with the right coach and structure Let's not forget that most current powerhouses weren't that good 10-15 years ago First Nattys: Mater Dei 1994 SJB 2013 Gorman 2014 IMG has the best overall record (winning %) of any HSFB team in America over the past 10 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softballguy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 6 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said: First Nattys: Mater Dei 1994 SJB 2013 Gorman 2014 IMG has the best overall record (winning %) of any HSFB team in America over the past 10 seasons. IMG wasn't even in existence 15 years ago and weren't nationally good until 2016 (which is inside the 10 year window) And that's 3 teams out of how many nationally ranked teams? There's a few good ones but just as many if not more that weren't good 15 years ago Miami Central won their first STATE title in 2010 AHP had how many championships before 2010? Chaminade Madonna? Cardinal Gibbons? These are 4 off the top of my head just from Florida Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softballguy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Either way it doesn't change the fact there's a good list of current state and nationally relevant teams across the board who weren't that good not that long ago Teams rise and fall all the time and usually a great coach at a program with prestige and they will be successful again Also didn't mater dei also have like a decade+ of average to subpar seasons between their run of national titles? Who knows what former national power will be good again in the near future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenStateBaller Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 1 minute ago, Softballguy said: IMG wasn't even in existence 15 years ago and weren't nationally good until 2016 (which is inside the 10 year window) And that's 3 teams out of how many nationally ranked teams? There's a few good ones but just as many if not more that weren't good 15 years ago Miami Central won their first STATE title in 2010 AHP had how many championships before 2010? Chaminade Madonna? Cardinal Gibbons? These are 4 off the top of my head just from Florida You're talking local FL. I'm talking nationally-relevant. CG, C-M and AHP weren't nationally-relevant or highly ranked until recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenStateBaller Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 58 minutes ago, Softballguy said: Either way it doesn't change the fact there's a good list of current state and nationally relevant teams across the board who weren't that good not that long ago Teams rise and fall all the time and usually a great coach at a program with prestige and they will be successful again Also didn't mater dei also have like a decade+ of average to subpar seasons between their run of national titles? Who knows what former national power will be good again in the near future Having coached at FSU, I'm obviously a fan of your state. In reality as of today there are only a four teams that are considered elite: IMG, STA, C-M, MC (trending down) My definition of "elite" is any team that could compete with or beat any of the Big3 (MD, SJB, IMG). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softballguy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 8 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said: You're talking local FL. I'm talking nationally-relevant. CG, C-M and AHP weren't nationally-relevant or highly ranked until recently. That is literally proving my point None of those teams were nationally elite until recently yet now they are Meaning teams who are elite now may not be elite in 10-15 years just as teams who aren't elite now may be elite in 10-15 Again what was Mater Dei in the mid to late 00s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenStateBaller Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Softballguy said: That is literally proving my point None of those teams were nationally elite until recently yet now they are Meaning teams who are elite now may not be elite in 10-15 years just as teams who aren't elite now may be elite in 10-15 Again what was Mater Dei in the mid to late 00s? What Mater Dei is now is what's most important. #powerprivate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC ROCKETS Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 11 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said: Having coached at FSU, I'm obviously a fan of your state. In reality as of today there are only a four teams that are considered elite: IMG, STA, C-M, MC (trending down) My definition of "elite" is any team that could compete with or beat any of the Big3 (MD, SJB, IMG). Since 2019 MC has played 6 games against your beloved #powerprivates. Played BG and SJB in consecutive weeks. They miss one year and now they're trending down. You funny as hell dude!!! Edited July 9 by MC ROCKETS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenStateBaller Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 10 minutes ago, MC ROCKETS said: Since 2019 MC has played 6 games against your beloved #powerprivates. Played BG and SJB in consecutive weeks. They miss one year and now they're trending down. You funny as hell dude!!! At least they're still on the list. Losing to Norland 2x hasn't helped either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softballguy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, GardenStateBaller said: What Mater Dei is now is what's most important. #powerprivate Maybe but your changing the debate This started with the past being unimportant because past powerhouses aren't as good as they were before but yet mater dei by your own admission had national title success in the 90s yet fell off in the 00s before regaining it so who's to say any former powerhouse CAN'T get back to that level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softballguy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 14 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said: The lowest classes of FL HSFB mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. C-M has made a name for themselves by beating the likes of Buford, SFA and BC. TCA plays nobodies. If the lowest classes lined up with other states that would be the case but in Florida the county teams are in matter a lot more than the size of the school There are plenty of teams with a few hundred kids who will easily beat schools with a few thousand kids The talent pool of the county matters far more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenStateBaller Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 5 minutes ago, Softballguy said: Maybe but your changing the debate This started with the past being unimportant because past powerhouses aren't as good as they were before but yet mater dei by your own admission had national title success in the 90s yet fell off in the 00s before regaining it so who's to say any former powerhouse CAN'T get back to that level I agree with you with the exception of public programs unless they schedule and beat elite, OOS power privates. Miami Central is the clear example. Two years ago they won a Natty because they beat IMG. This year they have no shot at a MNC due to their in-state schedule. Teams like Allen, Permian, Valdosta, etc. are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC ROCKETS Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 14 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said: At least they're still on the list. Losing to Norland 2x hasn't helped either. Norland had one of those years they have every 4-5 seasons. It was what it was. Not to mention in 4 of those games MC played against power privates they left the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenStateBaller Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 1 minute ago, MC ROCKETS said: Norland had one of those years they have every 4-5 seasons. It was what it was. Not to mention in 4 of those games MC played against power privates they left the state. Norland lost to Berkeley Prep, which was a killer for MC. Regarding national rankings it's always best to lose to OOS teams than in-state ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC ROCKETS Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 3 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said: Norland lost to Berkeley Prep, which was a killer for MC. Regarding national rankings it's always best to lose to OOS teams than in-state ones. I disagree. If the in state team is having a magical year(Norland or Berkeley) then you take it for what it is. I had rather lost to Norland last year that SFA... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softballguy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, GardenStateBaller said: Norland lost to Berkeley Prep, which was a killer for MC. Regarding national rankings it's always best to lose to OOS teams than in-state ones. That's like saying Valor Christian is a better win/loss than AHP Most states HAVE to travel OOS because the teams in their state are beneath them Teams WANT to play Florida because they know that Florida is a better state than every other When you are the standard you can play more elite competition in state than most OOS teams eams can offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softballguy Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, GardenStateBaller said: I agree with you with the exception of public programs unless they schedule and beat elite, OOS power privates. Miami Central is the clear example. Two years ago they won a Natty because they beat IMG. This year they have no shot at a MNC due to their in-state schedule. Teams like Allen, Permian, Valdosta, etc. are done. With the right coach and pool of talent any program can become elite especially in today's sports climate with very little loyalty and the desire to load up at the team of the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenStateBaller Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 4 minutes ago, Softballguy said: With the right coach and pool of talent any program can become elite especially in today's sports climate with very little loyalty and the desire to load up at the team of the time We'll agree to disagree. In my opinion no public team will ever win a consensus Natty again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC ROCKETS Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 44 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said: We'll agree to disagree. In my opinion no public team will ever win a consensus Natty again. Yeah, that's because the private school fix is in full effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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